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By oldnslow - 7/24/2006 5:24:22 PM
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hey, no problem...assuming factory ignition switch, AMC engine and motorcraft ignition box-- and NO wiring from the factory other than the wires hanging out of the motorcraft box... There are two really important resistance circuits involved.
What engine do you have?
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By oldnslow - 7/31/2006 5:33:38 AM
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This is your basic ignition circuit for *every* gasoline rig built with 12v ignitions (post 6V) before HEI and computers.
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By oldnslow - 7/31/2006 5:53:58 AM
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When you turn key to "start" position, here's the current flow.
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12v (Battery +) goes to ignition switch, then flows to starter solenoid, which is a kind of switch relay. This switch action supplies 12 volts to starter motor and to coil; engine turns over and spark plugs ignite gas.
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By oldnslow - 7/31/2006 7:18:52 AM
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Here's the basic circuit in "run" position.
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Two important things here: resistance circuit to coil (a hold-over from breaker points- drops 12 volts down to around 9; lower voltage reduced point arc and pitting) and the diode on the alternator. Jeep used a resistance wire on both.
Get an ignition resistor at auto supply; these come in different values but just tell them you need one for a '66 Chevy pickup. Here's what they look like
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You will need a diode to prevent current flowing back from alternator excitor circuit (the brown wire Field 1 in pic) through the ignition switch to the coil; engine will not shut off otherwise. This circuit is needed as alternators, unlike generators, require some power to get them working. Not sure of value, found this item at an auto electrical rebuilders:
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By oldnslow - 7/31/2006 7:32:17 AM
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Here's some Ford SSI box diagrams as used on AMC.
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The tubes on the internets are really clogged today, so will have more complete diagram hopefully later today; barely online (8-23 KB/sec)right now. Basic ignition circuit isn't hard, but will try to include whatever is needed for POS BDS carb. I've heard of the Nutter bypass, but don't run AMC I-6 so not familar with all the in's and out's of such rigs.
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By oldnslow - 8/2/2006 1:52:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TennJeep
Oldnslow,Wancarrow & Ted, thanks for your comments. I on my way back to the parts store for the resistor and another battery (looks like I killed my trolling motor battery now). I did at least get the motor to turn over, no spark though. I still have one wire (white wire from module) that I don't where it goes. Maybe these diagrams will help. I'll know more this evening. This thing is going to run soon. Thanks for all your help.
white wire and red wire from module go to the same connector. Wire colors change at this connector. Red wire becomes red with white trace(a resistance wire) and white wire becomes light blue. Light blue wire goes to "S" terminal on starter solenoid and to Start terminal on your ignition switch.
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By oldnslow - 8/2/2006 3:30:05 AM
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By oldnslow - 8/2/2006 4:25:10 AM
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This should work, colors are AMC. Accessory circuit essentially leaves out the ignition.
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Not sure if you're using the original bulkhead connector and fusepanel. If so, they use standard GM connectors of that era. Terminals can be replaced for that factory look; below pic is of NAPA make. GM stealorships have much nicer ones made of a plated steel. More moolah of course. Use a small flat blade screwdriver to depress tabs and slide them out. These terminals come in two sizes, 10-12 gauge and 14-18 gauge wires. Bulkhead connector has two spaces for the 10-12 gauge sizes.
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Avoid electrical tape, and if you must use it, get a good brand like Scotch 3M 88. Tape roll with the red backing in pic is splicing tape; this tape sticks to itself really really well and makes a nice tight covering-- but after a few days you're going to have difficulty unwrapping it. Makes a nice tight harness, but it's almost permanent. Split loom is easy to work with and available everywhere (colors too!)
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Don't forget to put a fusible link in the circuit. Fires are no joke. The circuits for the BDS carb are making my head hurt.
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By oldnslow - 9/10/2006 5:30:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TennJeep
Had a little time off from the honey do's, Jeep started.......then backfired, I have a little less hair on one arm, fires are serious. Now to just get everything mounted to the dash, weld the rusted place in the frame and put in the new gas tank. I'm gonna wheel the snot out of this junker. Thanks for everyone's response.
Glad to hear it started. Backfires on old school carb rigs are usually caused by one of two things. 1) too much advance or 2) weak fuel/air mix.
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By oldnslow - 3/9/2010 3:10:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jtsand
ok, now i'm to the point where i'm plugging everything back in. does anyone where i might find directions for where the two red white wires, the red wire, the black wire and the lite blue wire actually connect in the plugs that go into the the ignition switch? please?
re: tape; AMC could have some rude looking splices. Maybe factory, may be previous owner. Given age of vehicle, probably both.
Red wire, 10 gauge from ignition switch to splice; splices lead to bulkhead connector, fuse panel, and horn relay connector. Engine side of bulkhead connector continues with same wire color and gauge to a splice; among other circuits this eventually leads to alternator.
Black wire, 18 gauge from ignition switch to bulkhead connector. Engine side continues with same color and gauge to a brake failure switch connector.
Light blue wire, 16 gauge from ignition switch to bulkhead connector. Engine side continues with same color and gauge to starter solenoid (engine start circuit; this circuit energizes starter motor).
Red wire with white trace from the ignition switch goes to a splice. Splice continues to tachometer, bulkhead connector and to fuse panel. This wire with trace may be located on the ignition switch close to the red wire which leads to alternator.
Red wire with white trace from the ignition switch goes to a splice. Splice will continue in red with white trace to fuse panel; brown wire in splice leads to bulkhead connector. This brown wire feeds such circuits as the air conditioner.
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By jquise2423 - 9/3/2010 2:11:36 AM
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Painless wiring is the only way to go.
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By wancarrow - 7/24/2006 12:08:28 PM
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Hey, I sympathize about the wife's complaining, I get all the time. Anyway, get yourself a Chilton's manual it has the wiring diagram for your jeep. Here is a stab at the wiring. The key switch first, terminal marked BAT is power from battery (need joice to run), terminal "st" goes to the starter solenoid (coil terminal, small terminal), accessories is just that (sound system lights), ignition I not sure. Your module wiring: Red wire is from ignition switch, this wire also goes to positive side of coil. That is from ignition switch to coil to module. My schematic shows a red/trace with an inline resistor between the coil and module. The white wire from the module goes to the starter solenoid. Again, my schematic shows white from module but terminates at the solenoid as lt blue. The starter solenoid posts: S is from ignition switch, I to ground or bat neg. Bat post is straight from battery, starter post goes straight to starter motor. The alternator, its post is wired to the solenoid terminal label "Bat" (yes the same). Basically the +term of the battery, and alternator joined at the solenoid. Yours may go to a fuse block. My 1980 jeep has a fuseble link instead of a fuse block. The starter draws current from the battery when cranking the engine. After the engine starts the alternator supplies current and charges the battery, that is why battery and alternator wires are connected at the same location. Therefore, one of the wires is for the battery and the second is for I believe a manifold heater (if used). That the best I can do for now. Maybe somone else can clearify or confirm some of this.
If I get a chance I will trace the wires tomorrow if you still need help.
Good Luck
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By wancarrow - 7/30/2006 12:50:12 AM
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I checked the solenoid "I" terminal with a meter, it doesn't go to ground. If you go to Autozone's web site you can look at the Chilton manual diagram. You can at least see if it's any better. However, it does not give terminal designators. And in this case shows the wrong color wire going to ground for the solenoid. I checked my jeep, several of the colors do not match up with the diagram, but that just could be my jeep. I bought it several years ago. (1980 cj7)
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By wancarrow - 7/30/2006 1:09:20 AM
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Tenn, Ted is correct. I found a wiring diagram with terminal designations in "The Jeep Bible". It clearly shows the correct wiring with terminal designations. Would send you a pic, but I don't have a scanner. You may want to pick this book up for future reference, it may be useful.
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By TennJeep - 7/24/2006 6:51:05 AM
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I need help with the basic wiring for a CJ7.
It is a beater jeep that I intend on just getting it running maybe do a few mods such as D44 from an old Scout and a spring over lift.
but since the jeep was not a "good idea" according to my wife, I have to spend very little noticable money on it until it is running.
Now for the problem, previous owner ripped out the wiring.....I want to have the least amount of wiring possible. i.e. not worried about lights, radio, etc. (it's going to be an off road 4x4 only).
I have a key switch with 4 contacts ST = starter, Bat = Battery, Acc = accessories, ig= ignition.
the module has 4 wires out, orange, blue black go to ditributor and the green to the neg side of coil. what connects to the + side of the coil? also the module has two wires going into it a red and white I don't know what needs to attach here??? Next the started selenoid has 4 positions labeled as S= ??, I= ??, post to battery and post to starter.
Altenator has one post that goes back to the fuse block ? and it splices to a clip that has two wires coming out of it and they go where?
I have the haynes manual.....I'm not an electrican just a country boy with a barn and a set of tools. Any help will be appreciated. I know the most simple would be to buy the Painless kit and be finished, but the wife says why throw money at a rust bucket that will never run. Help a fellow jeeper out.
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By TennJeep - 7/25/2006 11:49:18 AM
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Thanks for all suggestions. I'll post outcome after I try.
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By TennJeep - 7/29/2006 2:29:50 AM
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Tried all that was recommended and I fried a portable jump start box, I think I may have hooked up something wrong. Here is where I'm confused.....what hooks up to the + on the coil, where do the wires on the altenator go to, and what does the I on the starter selenoid go to? I did get the motor to turn over with the switch circuit. Is the chilton manual any easier to follow than the Haynes?
Thanks in andvance for any suggestions.
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By TennJeep - 8/2/2006 1:08:42 AM
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Oldnslow,Wancarrow & Ted, thanks for your comments. I on my way back to the parts store for the resistor and another battery (looks like I killed my trolling motor battery now). I did at least get the motor to turn over, no spark though. I still have one wire (white wire from module) that I don't where it goes. Maybe these diagrams will help. I'll know more this evening. This thing is going to run soon. Thanks for all your help.
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By TennJeep - 8/14/2006 2:45:34 AM
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Had a little time off from the honey do's, Jeep started.......then backfired, I have a little less hair on one arm, fires are serious. Now to just get everything mounted to the dash, weld the rusted place in the frame and put in the new gas tank. I'm gonna wheel the snot out of this junker. Thanks for everyone's response.
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By jtsand - 3/7/2010 7:02:02 PM
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whoa! the above circuit maps rock! thanks guys!
i'm getting into my '86 CJ7. i've got the steering column torn apart to fix a broken ignition linkage. trouble is, there's a short somewhere between the ignition switch and...?---lots of magic smoke coming out of the dash area. i got my head under there (after disconnecting the battery and clearing the smoke), and i can trace the wires back into the big black snake that goes through the bulkhead-- a little more to it than the simple maps above. i wish i could discern which wire went to what. there's a hot little black one, which is sizzled, and a blue one, also sizzled. the black one looks like 18g, and the blue one 14g. then there are three big red ones and a big yellow one. i've removed the ign switch from the column and unplugged all of these wires from their terminals, thinking (hoping) that the switch was bad. but more magic smoke when i tried a "hotwire" start. from this point i hope to get some advice on two things.
1:any general pointers with this particular circuit?
2:might i have done serious damage? (and, if so, what may have gotten fried?)
my best plan from here is to start carefully slicing open the harness from the dash, through the bulkhead and beyond, in order to replace damaged wires. obviously, one of those 'painless' kits looks awfully tantalizing right about now, but moolah IS an issue. for now, i would just like to get it usable again. i see some splices under the column that don't have that factory look, some with tape, which leaves me unsure of the proper guage for the wires i'll need to replace. any guesses?
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By jtsand - 3/8/2010 6:33:00 AM
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ok, now i'm to the point where i'm plugging everything back in. does anyone where i might find directions for where the two red white wires, the red wire, the black wire and the lite blue wire actually connect in the plugs that go into the the ignition switch? please?
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By jtsand - 3/11/2010 6:13:48 AM
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'rude-looking'---yes, indeed. and many thanx. i've been desperately searching for a wire-termination spec, as i have removed the wires from the terminators that plug into the ig.swch. does such a thing exist? there's a black plug and a whit plug. the white one must plug in first, as it is molded for the black tombe plugged "on top"(second). from my experience wiring elevators i am presuming that the white plug is "power supply," and that the black runs switched power to ig.sol. and beyond. my d.a. mistake was pulling these wires from the plugs w/o FIRST notating their termination spec[attributable to the oregon winter hail pelting the back of head, heheh]. does a termination diective EXIST for this situation? i.e., where(on the ignition switch) do the wires plug into, to achieve proper momentary and continuous power supply?[momentary for starter motor & continuous for dist., acc., etc.]
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By jtsand - 3/12/2010 6:02:44 AM
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ok, found the terminations i was looking for, just haven't figured out how to upload the image. i hooked everything back up, but it still doesn't work. when i advance the ignition switch to the start position, all voltage drops out and nothing happens. i just here a clicking from somewhere in the vicinity of the distributor. the motor DOES turn over when i jump the solenoid out. i'm lost now. i have a volt meter, i just don't know where to start testing and what to test for....
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By jtsand - 3/14/2010 6:27:25 AM
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ok, i think my solenoid is now kapught. for some reason, it's getting power even when i don't have the key turned to start. this seems obviously wrong. i think i'm going to go with the painless option
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By Ted Wendel - 7/28/2006 12:17:19 PM
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Don't hook the I terminal on the starter solenoid to ground,you will have a dead short when you engage the starter,the I terminal is to suply a full 12 volts to the ignition system,while cranking the engine.
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By Ted Wendel - 7/30/2006 12:47:24 AM
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The + on the coil,splits off into two wires one goes to the red power feed to the ignition box,the other one goes to the I on the starter solenoid.On the alternator wires,the bolt terminal goes to the + side of the battery,as does the terminal furest away from the bolt terminal ,the other one is a resistor wire that goes to a hot wire when the key is in the on,and cranking position.
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